He was initially depicted as functionally omnipotent showing feats like creating planets and destroying galaxies. She easily could hold an infinite-D multiverse in her hand, while Beyonder's best feat was to shake an infinite-D multiverse. Dem nah, There's toaa, pre retcon beyonder, toba,and true form oblivion as obvious choices but there's actually alot more. " (Fun fact, guys like EGD and Beyonder exists outside. Some overkill ones would be The Brothers Death (apart from maybe small death), Scarlet King, etc. Beyonder(Pre-Retcon) Tier 1. Didn't Comic God of Stories affected Pre-Retcon Beyonder? 12 days ago. Beyonder and Thanos . hÀng nguyÊn bẢn- beyonder pre-retcon; 2. Comparing Multi-Eternity to baseline High 1-B, like the Glory is, is like comparing 10-B to High 3-A, or Low 2-C to 2-A. If we ignore Thought Robot's plot manipulating and implied power and go by feats, then I think Beyonder stops at round 9. @zxzcczzcxz said: Fodder comic verse that lose to barely street tier verse and can't beat Warframe and Destiny vs high. Versions-Strongest. LT got rekt by beyonder Reply Ozymandias935 • Additional comment actions. SCP-682 (SCP Foundation) vs Beyonder (Pre Retcon) Fight ends only in Death. 2. The Beyonder is a cosmic being of immense power, often labelled as omnipotent during the issues of Secret Wars, and much stronger than all the other cosmic entities. Since the Chaos Gods have no way to kill him, he'll eventually win. Lucifer from DC comics (new-earth). -Beyonder/s are bloodlusted. Pre-Retcon Beyonder 10/10 destroy Flash. 7. Pre-Retcon Beyonder for the win, its just that one panel's narration about being billions or was it millions of times more powerful then all the multiverse combined, thats what convinces me he is above TOAA. Childlike and vastly powerful, he grew up in a universe created by the other Beyonders for their young. These are characters that have all three omnipotent qualities. PR Beyonder is a casual multiverse buster. ProfessorRespect. Tier: Stellar | Endless | Realium | Transcendent: Keys: Base Galactus power absorbed | Infamous Iron-Man | Dual Infinity Gauntlet God Emperor Doom | Pre-Retcon Beyonder absorbed: Extra: Simple words can't describe the glory of Dr Doom, as Galactus, he deserve more than 5 stars 😤Beyonder and Lucifer gets blinked by Shinra with his narrative manipulation. He was the TOAA of. In 1985, before any changes were made to the story, The Beyonder was a. 'Twas always thus, and always thus will be. -Everything in bleach. so i think the only characters that can beat him are tier 0 characters like boundless. However, Post-Retcon is going down, hard. even characters like Doctor Doom, Spider-man were on God Tier using PRB Power. Yeah true. Pre-Retcon Beyonder is probably here as well. He beat the Living Tribunal. A Time Lords) from the. Also, it's important to know Molecule Man has also so been retconned, so you should put Pre-Retcon Molecule Man. Scathan has decided he no longer "Approves" of the beyonders exsistance. @Metalslash said: MJJ wins. The same exact way Presence is the Supreme Being of the DC Multiverse. There has been several incarnations of the Beyonder, each a retcon of the one before. Marvel's Multiverse was not using Type III Multiversal Expansion. Mar 9, 2022. Owen Reece was a weak, shy boy in Brooklyn, New York who obsessively clung to his mother. Nope that’s pre-retcon not post retcon. Immersion: Beyonder (Pre/Post-Retcon), GoS Loki, HOI Vision, The One Above All and Multi Eternity via Eternity Mask, Deadpool with the Continuity Gem and She-Hulk (Classics); formerly Plot Resistance: The Beyonders (Ivory King), Beyonder (Post-Retcon); scaling from the other beyonders and GoS Loki Toon Force: She-Hulk. Thor Vs Justice League : Vs AVENGERS : 12 Cosmic Beings in Marvel : 2, 2016. Pre Retcon Beyonder was stated to be most powerful thing in all the almighty, and Oblivion first appeared in 1984 Ice Man. ago. Molecule Man has fought Pre-Retcon Beyonder (who is more powerful than Dr. They’re 50 tonners at most. The Physical Timeline Multiverse of DC has changed sizes from being 52 Timelines. Name: Lucifer Morningstar Origin: DC Comics Classification: Angel Gender: Male Age: 10,000,000,000+ Years old Strength Lifting: Speed: Nigh-Omnipresence Striking Speed: Striking Strength: Durability: Intelligence: Nigh-Omniscience Range: Multiverse+ Level Destructive capacity. @jashro44. Literally any one of the hundred omnipotent beings in Marvel could. bonus: lỊch sỬ cÁc lẦn retcon cỦa beyonder – kẺ sỞ hỮu nhỮng feat bÁ ĐẠo nhẤt lỊch sỬ marvel comic. Beyonder was everything inside the Multi-verse. Later, the two merge into one single Cosmic Cube, and it is. Again, I don’t kno Fu, but if he’s Hyperversal as ur sayin, or even higher, then he’d def beat Post-retcon. Scan 1 and Scan 2. The same way how Marvel was back then a multiverse. PR Beyonder takes it 10/10. beyonder (pre-retcon) old ones (the dark tower) the beyonders the dark tower Replies: 18; Forum: Versus Threads; the beyonders vs the Downstreamers. Manhattan's league. However, PR Beyonder is an extremely powerful reality warper and is simply way out of Dr. BeyonderGod's Beyonder is Omnipotent. Round 2: Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs God of Stories Loki Bonus Round: Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs Venom (The End) Archived post. ProfessorRespect. @majinmike: Because Beyonder is considered nigh omnipotence , even we assume they can adapt his power, they can still get '' unmade'' ,because they are not even high tier cosmic beings. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. Sorted by: 9. SirMethos. Supposedly it is equal but opposite to the Presence. Again, I don’t kno Fu, but if he’s Hyperversal as ur sayin, or even higher, then he’d def beat Post-retcon. The entire Watcher. Created by writer Jim Shooter and artist Mike Zeck, the Beyonder first appeared in Secret Wars #1 (May 1984) as an unseen being who kidnapped the heroes and villains of the Marvel Universe and had them do battle on another planet called Battleworld. . 14 years ago. The first firmanent would be the only being who could challege beyonder in a fair fight . . The powers of the PRB are attributed as unlimited; omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent. Has no equal or superior, Created Heaven’s (which could be a Universe) with a word and is just flat out stated to be omnipotent with. There has been several incarnations of the Beyonder, each a retcon of the one before. Pre-Retcon Molecule Man is considered comparable to Pre-Retcon Beyonder, and there is a vast supply of evidence proves that Molecule Man was not in fact comparable to the. 7 K. Word Lords, the Celestis, Faction Paradox, etc. ago. Wiki Points. Anyone trying to still argue Pre Retcon Beyonder is some Marvel top tier needs to have their info refreshed. . Pre-Retcon beyonder could be said to be the "God before genesis" he was God before TOAA existed in the comics at that time, and when TOAA came into existence as an omnipotent character they had to greatly reduce the power of the Beyonder, from there they began to know him as "Post-retcon beyonder". " -Robin Williams (Dead Poets Society) ~Member Since: 09/25/2009~. Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty) Respect Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty) Scarlet King (SCP) Respect The Scarlet King (SCP Foundation) Pre retcon beyonder was stronger than all of marvel multiverse combined with exception of TOAA. Wiki Points. • Speed: The Beyonder doesn't have too many solid speed feats, Omnipresence isn't considered as a speed tier but rather a state of existence + he's only omnipresent within. However, that scan of her being able to have an effect on PR Beyonder was pretty badass. Xeranthemum from Suggsverse, at least going by the wiki. Named but mid-level Celestials. Pre Retcon Beyonder is more insane than his diet coke race counterparts Hickman used (yes they predate Hickman as Kubik in that FF4 comic shows, I know). If someone can actually name a more. 664*10^25. The energy breached into reality during the accident that gave Owen his powers, but as there was no container, a large part of such energy wandered off into another universe, creating the Beyonder. everything else is nothing to him Galactus. The molecule man destroys the machine and sends the enormous energies of the Beyonder into his beyond-realm forming a big bang and creating a new universe in the process - Scan 1, Scan 2, Scan 3, Scan 4 and Scan 5. So BeyonderGod Beyonder > Cynical DemonbaneSearch titles only By: Search Advanced search…Beyonder by feats however after thinking about it i think EGD should win. ( INT^1. ~Old CBR Post Count: 834~. Bernkastel vs her servant Will ( not an actual battle. • 1 year ago. So wow great feat. Pre Retcon Beyonder'in seviyesi benim gözümde Mandrakk ile aynıdır ki buna göre sadece Vertigodan bile bayağı bir karakter yazabilirim bende. Presence isn't all that impressive either, but enough to. Post-retcon isn’t anywhere near as powerful as Classic (Pre), but he’s still pretty powerful. However, since infinite force and energy is the highest degree of strength that a character can reach in terms of physics there would be no level of power above what is necessary to destroy an infinite universe, i. Sungsam. Even if you want to argue that Beyonder is stronger, it doesn't matter, since Death has already feats of claiming infinite-dimensional entities, that are even. 81. I think HOI vision, GOS loki, GOP thor all beat astral regulator Thanos (arguments can show that gop and gos neg thanos) that's only to name a few, I'm sure there's more specially since u included non cannon. Forum Posts. @Prince CortSether said: Assuming PR Beyonder in this thread stands for Pre-retcon like it usually does. Sure he can beat the post-retcon Beyonder. Fight takes place in an infinite dimension. The following is an overview of our Tiering System. Beyonder displayed far superior implicated power than the. Molecule Man utterly in fear admitted that Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) is on levels unimaginable to him and self-stated that he cant Match Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) in power meaning that Beyonder was infinitely more powerful than him even when he was above all the powers of the cosmic hierarchy (Including: The Living Tribunal himself). The Physical Timeline Multiverse of DC has changed sizes from being 52 Timelines. Dr. . " (Fun fact, guys like EGD and Beyonder exists outside. Follow 41314. Rules: All tier zero characters from marvel are removed. Post Retcon the Beyonder was part cosmic cube along with Owen. While The Living Tribunal is rated 1-A (more than The Beyonder)and 616 Eternity or Multi-Eternity is rated High 1-B (same as The Beyonder). Death from what I remember had no power of Lucifer, only Destiny did - so I think it's safe to assume she scales below him. Yes, the Ivory Kings are retcon back inspirations to Pre Retcon Beyonder, but they are merely inspirations. He wins. Pre Retcon is still cooler, jist because of cosmology Expansion, defenders beyonder seems stronger but he is featless for now. The Beyonder erases Death itself from the Multiverse, the Living Tribunal and his delegation politely beg the Beyonder to bring back Death to the Multiverse. Speed. The being known as the Beyonder is, in fact, a young member of an. CryptoName Owen Reece, Molecule Man Origin Marvel Tier: 1-B Gender: Male Classification: Mutant Age: Unknown Abilites and Powers: Matter Manipulation, Reality Warping, Space-Time Manipulation, Transmutation, Probability Manipulation, Molecular Manipulation Weaknesses: a non stable mind Destructive Capacity: Beyond Multiversal ( was able to. no one can tell, if he was less powerful than TOAA or equal, PR Beyonder was stated by Stan lee to be omnipotent, but the meaning of omnipotent is debatable. #5. Follow 5232. Speed Equalized Round 1: Gauntlet Scenario Round 2: John. Archie sonic defeated someone who could destroy millions of MULTI-VERSE zones. . 1. The Scarlet King scales above Aleph 2 and 3 which Marvel doesn't reach that level. Imagion all he powers in the Marvel Multiverse (which is infinite), not just the Multiverse but also every being in it, and emptyness (which is also infinite) beyond it (blank pages) Even Stan Lee stated in an interview in the 80s, that Beyonder was supose to represent the power the writers had. Well, they are treated as the same character, the Beyonder who showed up post-retcon is, canonically, the same Beyonder who showed up pre-Retcon. Pre-Retcon Beyonders was described to be like a child compared to the Beyonders we are seeing now. The Only Thing I know. Tier: At least Low 2-C, likely 2-A | At least Low 1-C, likely higher | 1-A Name: Alien X Origin: Ben 10 Gender: Male Age: Inapplicable (Likely billions of years old. He. -Everything in bleach. If he was a true omnipotent, then he wouldn't have been retconned. Lucifer is also technically the most intelligent being in DC besides God. British_Tea_Company • 7 yr. The One Above All; Beyonder (Pre Retcon). Sep 6, 2015. Goku is low outer at best and byonder is easily outerversal. Pre-retcon Beyonder is his most popular matchup, or at least the one I see most often, but who's his closest?. ) along with the Great Houses of Gallifrey (A. Manhattan. Using these lines of evidence, pre-retcon beyonder clearly wields greater control over reality than OT god. -. So, I looked at The Beyonder's (Pre-Retcon)profile and, found out that he is rated Tier High 1-B and likely, 1-A. No BFRs and the battle takes place in the forge of creation. Alovenus is the strongest in fiction since Alovenus>Omnipotent beings. akuto fictionally transcends an uncountably infinite layered hierarchy of characters who are above the concepts of space & time and/or platonic forms in nature which also contains all possibilities & impossibilities, & each tier in the hierarchy fictionally transcends the one below it, making even the lowest characters in the hierarchy very high into high. The Beyonder, and Molecule man, are each. What teams could maybe stand a chance against pre-retcon Beyonder? Total defeat optional (if possible). People already think Pre-Retcon Beyonder is around the One Above All (directly below, equal, or above), so this new big bad is gonna be busted in a confusing way, since a fraction of his is power. Pre-Retcon Beyonder was the literal principle and the executioner at the same time yes their was scans of Beyonder TANKing universe busting and faster than light attacks he even was able to. Superhuman Strength: Superman Prime One Million has the ability to physically lift humongous levels of weight, and deliver physical blows of colossal magnitudes. Spectre. This was the same time the first Secret Wars wherein Beyonder first. Name:' The Beyonder, The One From Beyond, The One Who is All, Frank. Pre-Retcon Beyonder. COIE Anti Monitor. According to that one guy Anos could do it,. And the Beyonder and the Molecule Man are in fact, two halves of one such Cosmic Cube. Yes, pre-retcon MM was strong, but he needed so much support to get anything done. SWI is still the best selling series. Omnipotent, Beyonder organized an event called Secret Wars, in which he kidnapped the most important superheroes and supervillains in the Marvel universe, for a confrontation between them on a distant planet. Mephisto said that The Beyonder could make idlest imaginings a reality with a wave of his hand, turning all of existence inside out), Vibration Manipulation (Created an earthquake throughout the city), Attack Reflection (Deflected Magneto's power beam towards the X-Men), Magnetism Manipulation (Repelled Magneto by duplicating his own. Ashley. Business, Economics, and Finance. @bballaag: No, even pre retcon beyonder cannot defeat The Presence or even TOAA. I'm talking only about marvel and not including DC. Bait? 1 year ago. She inherited the Demiurgic power through her father and with Lucifer's guidance, she molded and created her own universe, and that was a vastly weaker and earlier version. In Secret Wars 2, the Beyonder was above the real Living Tribunal (In the retcon, it was. With this skill (plot manipulation), still can affect Pr beyonder. It depends which version of Molecule Man, Pre-Retcon Molecule Man will win against Dr. Both Beyonder (assuming this is him outside his personal realm) and the Presence, since both are like Low 1-B, this could go either way. #44 Edited By Debunker020202. R1/R2 - Depends which Post retcon as their is two, this goes for Molecule man also, the Half Cosmic cube MM and Beyonder and the Inhuman/mutant Beyonder and the Beyonders powered MM. 5 years ago. 7 years ago. It took 3 of the Beyonders to take down the same LT. Composite-DC/Vertigo's Infinite Hierarchy is. The Beyonder/s (Marvel) vs Bleach universe. Bloodlust on. Can he beat them?Magi and Saint seiya can take down the post retcon versions but not pre retcon. I mean even Thor was cracking those versions, so unless the writers really wanted Beyonder-tier Thor I think it's pretty obvious that they weren't at 100% in those forms. Some stuff from DC like Lucifer Morningstar. . Followers. IMO Lucifer convinces the Beyonder to kill himself. #4. Name: Beyonder Origin: Marvel Tier: 1-B | 1-A Gender: Inapplicable Classification: Cosmic Entity Age: Unknown Abilites and Powers: Nigh Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Nigh Omniscience, Remote Mind Control, Reality Embodiment, Reality Condition, Physical Law Immunity, Reality Warping Weaknesses: None Notable Destructive Capacity: Beyond. All proof that is needed is the fact that he is beyond the marvel multiverse. Mephisto saying the same power from Beyonder himself collected had potential to actually defeat Beyonder. He is superior to LT, but to what degree is unknown. Who will win in a fight between Beyonder and Multi-Oblivion & Oblivion (Pre-Retcon)?The Pre-Retcon Beyonder is the embodiment of the Beyond-Realm and is the chief of the extra-dimensional race the Beyonders who created the cosmic cubes and Kosmos, but the Maker (one of the. The Source - Primal Monitor, The universal spirit venerated by the New Gods, which resides beyond the Source Wall. While The Living Tribunal is rated 1-A (more than The Beyonder)and 616 Eternity or Multi-Eternity is rated High 1-B (same as The Beyonder). Wiki Points. Yujiro teaches the Beyond how to love, so I guess they both win. Rick has tried to go toe to toe with one of his universe’s “gods” and it went. xyrzrockrain. 3 years ago. There are other impressive feats to show, but they are all after the retcon. ^2 + DUR^1. 3 + (STR*0. Rune King Thor is still under beings such as The Living Tribunal infinitely. Pre Retcon Beyonder is multiversal while Homelander is low A tier. Older than the. And then we have the fact that Living Tribunal is three times stronger than Multi-Eternity. Rememeber he is a CONCEPT who wields power enough for him to create and destroy 60 billion. Grace ended months ago, but I'm pretty sure Aka's High 1-B key is being downgraded (still high 1-B but much lower on the tier). Here, let me pull a Beyonder feat out of my ass: With mere thoughts, the Beyonder subjects the entirety of Earth and all of its' inhabitants (down to the very microbes) to his rule, causing the most powerful leaders to bow to him instantly. Follow 1128. Making Beyonder stronger than a Tier 0 is not at all the same as scaling him to TLT. Type Solar vs. 2. Pre recton beyonder is one of the most over wanked marvel characters . Black winter lost to king thor with the power of galactus. Forum Posts. Pre Retcon Beyonder shitstomps the edgelord version of Batman into the ground, along with the rest of the DCverse. Random encounter. Nothing's ever more ridiculous than claiming a guy. 4 years ago. . He was initially. Round 2: Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs Alien X (author statements included). He encompasses all of dimensionality, but he does not transcend it. Defenders Beyond prove GoS abilities work on Beyonders or no. So, I looked at The Beyonder's(Pre-Retcon)profile and, found out that he is rated Tier High 1-B and likely,. I am allowing characters who only appeared once and characters that aren't part of the main Canon. Creaturemaster971. Basically beyonder is being of infinite dimensions when He limits himself, but as beyond realm he is a creature that goes beyond all that. 7 K. Tier Limit-Outerversal. That one time Phoenix Force making Pre Retcon Beyonder struggle: is this a testament to her power? Scan in question. He would also be the main villain in. Location-The Multiverse. Beyonder before the retcon was stronger than TLT. 2. ^2 + DUR^1. Both are in character. Matter of fact she doesn’t even beat Mister Mxyztplk. Pre Retcon Beyonder gets wrecked hard lol. ago. Xeranthemum from Suggsverse, at least going by the wiki. He would also be the main villain in. Oblivion is more powerful than Eternity but not by much. Especially considering the only other times to my knowledge I’ve. 2. Reinhard or Mercurius could beat Pre-Retcon Beyonder. Basically, either or both can be considered to be the presence, in either it's evil or good forms. Elaine Belloc would win under both scenarios, 2nd would be pointless. Round 9: Lord English (Anyone who served him and who were amped by him count) Respect Thread for him and a bit for his Servants. Not an expert on Beyonder, I just have a rough idea of his tier of power. He’s stronger than the one above all who is pretty much god above god. People rank Oblivion very high because of the statements made about him in Chaos War but you can apply that to any evil character with vagueish powers, like Cyttorak or whatever. here is a fight that involves. If i had to lowkey choose one blindly, i'd go with PRB. Locked post. ''. Mxyzptlk, Lucifer Morningstar, & Maxwell (DC) VS Pre Retcon Beyonder, Molecule Man & Galactus (Marvel) 2. K. Just because that occurred, does not mean Pre-Retcon Beyonder's "im ominoptent" statement holds any weight. As we can recall Pre Retcon Molecule Man was close in range to The Pre-retcon Beyonder, but even still was no match for him. Not even remotely close. This is just plain wrong, we see SK fighting abstract entities like the 5th God who infinitely dwarf the entire collective of human consciousness, wich in the verse includes Platonic and Neoplatonic philosophy, several religions like Buddhism and Taoism, and alephs and other higher teir mathematics. Pre Retcon Beyonder shitstomps the edgelord version of Batman into the ground, along with the rest of the DCverse. PR Beyonder is millions of times stronger than the Marvel multiverse. Yep. . It’s not. We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured. 66. which allows michael to ignore boundless narrative hierarchy and can create the concept to make new ones over and. - featherin vs Lamdadelta (not an actual battle, featherin smashed/trashed Lamda with no actual effort) 3. The Pre-Retcon Beyonder is literally millions of times more powerful than the Marvel creation which contains infinite multiverses upon infinite multiverses upon infinite multiverses and so on. Conceptual Warping Tier C vs Particle Manipulating Tier B. Making Beyonder stronger than a Tier 0 is not at all the same as scaling him to TLT. #1. but the other writers ruined and screwed up these characters. Manhattan) and has recreated a galaxy. let's wait and see his actual feats. Victor knows about Beyonder's powers so if he knows that LF is powerful than Cosmic cube why doesn't he just says “ Even the powers of The 'Cosmic cube' was nothing compared to. #15 Azronger. That's clearly an difference in power/authority. Key: Incomplete Cosmic Cube | Ascended Cosmic Cube (Kosmos) | Adult Beyonder | Escaped from the House of Ideas. Tier= Universal+ | Creation. 2nd Retcon - The BEyonder. He was even above and beyond the writing staff . Lucifer is definitely Pre-Retcon Beyonder tier while the Living Tribunal has become a jobber these past few years. Spectre is tapped into God so he has an unlimited amount of power at his disposal. At the time this storyline was written Beyonder Spider-Man would stomp. Beyonder was affecting the entire Marvel multiverse or omniverse, or something like that, all at once. Interesting. perpetua slams but shinra one taps both because he’s tier -1 and transcends all. Humans that exist in a megaverse can't automatically destroy a universe in another fiction. Abraxas, the personification of the destruction of the multiverse, is likely somewhere around here, although since he only. Holy moley. 2 years ago. About Pre-retcon/Classic Beyonder. Pre Retcon Beyonder is multiversal while Homelander is low A tier. 213. Forum Posts. (They Became the HOI, basically writer tier, or paper tier). 2. Has no equal or superior, Created Heaven’s (which could be a Universe) with a word and is just flat out stated to be omnipotent with. Yakushimi. He wins. Though with infinite power he is far more concerned about his place in life after being the all and everything within his realm he tries to understand the concepts of Life, Death, and Desire all things that he want experience. pre retcon beyonder is supposed to be above the living tribunal ( LT couldn't defeat him so he asked for MM's help) 11 years ago. TonyStark6999. - Fight Scenario -. All of Dr. First firament might exist before all the 8 creations but beyonder comes from different multiverse which treats the Marvel creation as a droplet of water . The rest was necessary PIS to make a more interesting story. #1 quandaledingle. Pre-Retcon Beyonder is honestly far less impressive than Molecule man, at least current molecule man. In terms of straight up feats CAS Lucifer and Mandrakk all technically show better feats then Perpetua. Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty) Respect Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty) Scarlet King (SCP). In other words the only feat the One Above All has that is confirmed is creating a reality of infinite. Featherine is way above than Beyonder. "The Beyond" was quintillions of times more massive than the Marvel Universe. I mean, Beyonder hilariously outclasses Merc in terms of AP, but their conceptual hax seems about equal. Share Sort by: Best. There it, the respect thread for Pre-Retcon Beyonder. Pre retcon MM scared the cosmics of the 80s even as groups, they had to just let him pass by out of fear, even beg him to fight Beyonder. Lucifer does not stand a chance here. And form. Celestials > Post-Retcon Beyonder > Phoenix Force. CC Goku is outerversal while in Uni Blue, meanwhile Pre retcon Beyonder as far as i know is high outer and has way better feats, apart from being part of a much larger cosmology. Conceptual Beings In Marvel are A Heavy Case Even Complex to Pre Retcon Beyonder and Comprehension in General More Real Than they Are so they create Forms and Allow others to Create forms of them to Interact or. 2.